Discussion in the Texas Legislature has brought gun rights to the forefront in education and politics, as SB 354, a bill that would allow concealed handguns on college campuses, comes closer and closer to being passed by politicians.
The bill, currently before the Criminal Justice committee in the Texas Senate, would allow people who have a concealed handgun license to go into classrooms in public universities in Texas.
Current CHL regulations stipulate that license holders be at least 21 years old, have a completely clear criminal record and be mentally competent.
Attitudes on campus are split by the legislation, with students and faculty expressing conflicting opinions on the issue.
Some staff members on campus noted that students who are armed could respond to dangerous situations and minimize the possible damage.
“It could be useful,” said Chris Wills, a UH contractor working in maintenance. “If someone comes to school with a gun and starts shooting, a student who has a gun on them can intervene and maybe help out and stop him.”
But many other students are concerned about the weight of responsibility that firearms require. Awele Phillips, an accounting junior, said the bill only brings worries concerning their proper use.
“I don’t agree with the bill, especially in this area (of town),” Phillips said. “Having a license just means you know how to use (a gun), not how to use it ethically. There’s no reason to have guns on campus. I don’t think we’re mature enough.”
Some faculty members believe the legislation brings unnecessary complications to campus. History professor Natalia Milanesio said firearms should be limited to the professionals who know how to use them.
“I believe that campus safety should be the responsibility of the government and the University through a professional force, not untrained students who most likely would obstruct police operations — making the identification of the aggressor more difficult,” Milanesio said.
“Guns on campus are dangerous because they would increase the risk of accidental shooting, polarize the campus population and create an intimidating atmosphere.”
Additional reporting done by Professor McHam’s reporting class.
Texas does not need more guns on College campuses. Additional guns will only present further hazard to our faculty, staff, and students. Crazed gunmen like Jared Laughner will not be stopped by this law. They are CRAZY. Jared Laughner shot and killed six people in a public space in the state with the most lax gun safety laws in the country. He was not deterred by the threat of other armed citizens, and his right to carry a weapon was never challenged. Guns did not protect these citizens of Arizona, how will they protect students on campus?
Jared Laughner, Amy Bishop, Steven Kazmierczak, Seung-Hui Cho, Edward Charles Allaway, and Charles Whitman all got their guns legally despite being nuts. Could they also get a concealed carry license just as easily? They weren't criminals until they flipped out and shot everyone they could. Are the gun safety classes required for a concealed gun license going to keep rightful gun owners like them from going nuts?
Will this really prevent a massacre?
You know what you don't hear about? All of the crime and campus shootings that were prevented by law enforcement keeping guns off campus. When order is maintained it does not make the national news. Is there any study that shows increased crime on campuses due to a lack of guns on campus?
From personal experience, I don't think more guns will lower crime. I go to the University of Houston. Despite the area my campus is located in there is very little crime on campus. Criminals do not need to worry about armed citizens on campus but despite this, crime is lower on campus than in the surrounding area. Guns do not keep us safe here, it is the proper enforcement of law. More guns will not make us more safe. It will make the average citizen more dangerous.
Please oppose this bill.
Reality disagrees with you joshuaism. Since the fall semester of 2006, state law has allowed licensed individuals to carry concealed handguns on the campuses of the nine degree-offering public colleges (20 campuses) and one public technical college (10 campuses) in Utah. Concealed carry has been allowed at Colorado State University (Fort Collins, CO) since 2003 and at Blue Ridge Community College (Weyers Cave, VA) since 1995. After allowing concealed carry on campus for a combined total of one hundred semesters, none of these twelve schools has seen a single resulting incident of gun violence (including threats and suicides), a single gun accident, or a single gun theft. Likewise, none of the forty ‘right-to-carry’ states has seen a resulting increase in gun violence since legalizing concealed carry, despite the fact that licensed citizens in those states regularly carry concealed handguns in places like office buildings, movie theaters, grocery stores, shopping malls, restaurants, churches, banks, etc. Numerous studies*, including studies by University of Maryland senior research scientist John Lott, University of Georgia professor David Mustard, engineering statistician William Sturdevant, and various state agencies, show that concealed handgun license holders are five times less likely than non-license holders to commit violent crimes.
"Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns,” John Lott and David Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies (v.26, no.1, pages 1-68, January 1997);
“An Analysis of the Arrest Rate of Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders as Compared to the Arrest Rate of the Entire Texas Population,” William E. Sturdevant, September 1, 2000; Florida Department of Justice statistics, 1998; Florida Department of State,
“Concealed Weapons/Firearms License Statistical Report,” 1998; Texas Department of Public Safety and the U.S. Census Bureau, reported in San Antonio Express-News, September 2000; Texas Department of Corrections data, 1996-2000, compiled by the Texas State Rifle Association
You present no facts only opinions. I challenge you to dispute my facts.
I couldn't put it any better my self Rick.
Glad to see that no guns were hurt during the study. Too bad they provide no statistics for a reduced rate of burglary, theft, or sexual assault. So while concealed carry campuses have proved safe for guns (so far), they fail to make the campus more safe.
Glad to see you not dispute my facts. Try posting some real material instead of poking impotent jokes at real statistics. It might bring a shred of credibility to your argument.
In addition to agreeing with RickyRicardo's assertion, I would like to point out some interesting statistics (yes, I know there are lies, damn lies, and then statistics). If you have a moment, please go to the Texas Department of Public Safety website. You will see a link regarding handguns and concealed handgun licenses. Click on that tab. Then, click on a link called Reports and Statistics, after which please click on the link Callender Year Reports under Conviction Rates. You will immediately see that, compared to the population at large, individuals who hold CHL's simply do not contribute significantly to any crime regardless of category.
For those of you who do not wish to visit the website I will plug a few numbers here. These figures are ALL for 2009.
Assault with a deadly weapon: TOTAL convictions in Texas- 2603
Assault with a deadly weapon: CHL holder convictions in Texas- 4
Aggravated assault resulting in bodily injury: TOTAL convictions in Texas – 784
Aggravated assault resulting in bodily injury: CHL holder convictions in Texas – 3
Even for non violent crimes, the rates among CHL holders are drastically reduced:
Abandon/criminal negligence of a child: TOTAL convictions in Texas: 598
Abandon/criminal negligence of a child: CHL holder convictions in Texas – 0
In fact, most of the categories have 0 convictions of CHL holders.
After scrolling through 4 or 5 pages of this data, it becomes pretty evident that CHL holders do not commit crimes. The reason behind this is that we respect the law and understand that we have a responsibility to protect ourselves and those around us.
If you simply do not like guns or are afraid of them, do not own or carry one- but do not make attempts to prevent me some doing so if I choose. I promise, if you ever meet me in the real world I will not only be the nicest man you've ever met, you won't even know that I'm armed. I don't brag or flaunt or brandish and I consider my decision to carry a private one that I do not share with many people. I, along with many of my fellow CC'ers take our responsibility very seriously.
You will never even know we're there.
All I see is some statistics that show that the people that can qualify for a CHL, have no need to carry the weapon in the first place.
What of all the gun crime victims that were denied the right to carry because of minor convictions? What if criminals only turn guns on other criminals? Aren't most crimes perpetrated against one's peers?
Post facts kiddo
“I don’t agree with the bill, especially in this area (of town),” Phillips said. “Having a license just means you know how to use (a gun), not how to use it ethically. There’s no reason to have guns on campus. I don’t think we’re mature enough.”
CHL classes spend about 3 whole hours training applicants in conflict avoidance and deterrence.
“I believe that campus safety should be the responsibility of the government and the University through a professional force, not untrained students who most likely would obstruct police operations — making the identification of the aggressor more difficult,” Milanesio said.
How often is a policeman at a crime scene the second it happens? Most incidents are over within minutes so by the time the UHPD got to the scene, it would most likely be over. We cannot rely on luck and chance to ensure the safety of the student population. CHL holders would not be untrained. In order to qualify for a CHL you must shoot a satisfactory group of 50 shots (minimum). This takes training and cannot be done by simply anyone. The UHDPS should be notified of people who are carrying on campus. This could be achieved by simply having a system that lets police know, when they are responding to a situation, who (if anyone) in the class is carrying a handgun.
"Guns on campus are dangerous because they would increase the risk of accidental shooting, polarize the campus population and create an intimidating atmosphere.”
See my above post. Ask anyone in a ‘right to carry’ state when he or she last noticed another person carrying a concealed handgun. The word 'concealed' is there for a reason. Concealed handguns would no more distract college students from learning than they currently distract moviegoers from enjoying movies or office workers from doing their jobs.
So a whole three hours of gun safety is what separates the CHL holder from your average, legal gun owner. Oh, and they have to be a strait shooter in a safe, controlled environment with a stationary target. Awesome.
Well if it only takes 3 hours to make a legal gun owner into a responsible gun owner, why not just have every buyer take the class. Because I'm tired of hearing about kids blowing their heads off after finding a gun in the nightstand.
You misread. I said three hours of conflict avoidance. Classes can go anywhere from 1-3 days.
Copied and pasted from my recent post.
Since the fall semester of 2006, state law has allowed licensed individuals to carry concealed handguns on the campuses of the nine degree-offering public colleges (20 campuses) and one public technical college (10 campuses) in Utah. Concealed carry has been allowed at Colorado State University (Fort Collins, CO) since 2003 and at Blue Ridge Community College (Weyers Cave, VA) since 1995. After allowing concealed carry on campus for a combined total of one hundred semesters, none of these twelve schools has seen a single resulting incident of gun violence (including threats and suicides), a single gun accident, or a single gun theft.
And I can easily find twelve schools that do not allow concealed carry and have not had one gun incident in the past 5-15 years too. What's your point?
Is there any proof that these guns reduced crime?
Post facts please, then we can have a discussion.
I would love to see concealed handguns legalized on campus. Perhaps the leftist profs will be a little more careful about what they say in their classrooms with perhaps 5 or 6 guns in the classroom. (Just kidding). In recent memory, I can only recall a single incident of a CHL holder and alleged wrongdoing — the train incident. And each and every week, the gun range I pass by is full-up on Saturday with new CHL trainees; so CHL holders have a pretty good track record against the ignorant who refuse to educate themselves in regards to this issue.
I guess you have a short memory, then. Remember this incident from a month ago (written about in this paper). No charges have been filed so far so I assume he was carrying a concealed weapon legally.
https://thedailycougar.com/2011/01/31/carry-remain… http://www.khou.com/home/Family-of-woman-accident…
If you look around campus, and you don't have to look too hard, there are plenty of military veterans going to school on their GI bills all around you. What I don't understand, is that at one point we trusted these people to drive armored tanks, fly fighter jets over populated cities, navigate nuclear submarines with intercontinental ballistic missile launching capabilities, and infiltrate the enemy on the most sensitive special operation missions you'll never ever even hear about, yet the idea of licensed students over 21 years of age like these exact same veterans carrying a handgun on campus is scary and controversial. Statements in this article like, "I don't think we're mature enough" or the idea of concealed carry on campus as creating an intimidating atmosphere assumes that those wielding the arms aren't going to be the exact same people you once depended on to keep you safe while you were snuggling your teddy bear sleeping at home at your mommy and daddy's house.
-Military Vet
All due respect to a military veteran but those all young adults that drive armored tanks, fly fighter jets, etc etc, are trained, or so we hope, for months and perhaps years to perform and operate those machines and weapons. Furthermore, they get the chance to engage in almost real case scenarios in which they get to practice their skills before they go into actual combat. As far as I know, this is not the case with the ordinary citizen that buys a weapon. It requires more time and effort to obtain a driver's license than a gun owner's license. Not to mention that background checks are often ignores but that is another subject.
Some faculty members believe the legislation brings unnecessary complications to campus. History professor Natalia Milanesio said firearms should be limited to the professionals who know how to use them.
“Professionals, the government, and a Professional force.” I want to know what these quantifications are. Campus Safety is the responsibility of everyone that works, lives or attends UH. If you were to see someone breaking the window to a car, or holding a weapon threatening another person would you not call the police?
“Laws the forbid the carrying of arms… disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they server rather to encourage then to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence then an armed man.” ~ Thomas Jefferson ~
“I believe that campus safety should be the responsibility of the government and the University through a professional force, not untrained students who most likely would obstruct police operations — making the identification of the aggressor more difficult,” Milanesio said.
“Responsibility of the government.” Yea right, The Government can’t even budget the books well and you suggest that I leave my safety to them. I have seen what the government takes responsibility for. One only needs to read up on Government History for great examples. The responsibility of “Personal Safety” is just that, my responsibility.
Before taking a side on this issue which so many feel strongly about do a little reading at the Texas DPS website about CHL’s. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/index.htm, then decide for yourself instead being a sheepeople.
“Laws the forbid the carrying of arms… disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they server rather to encourage then to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence then an armed man.” ~ Thomas Jefferson ~
Lawls, joshuaism u mad? Face reality: criminals will ALWAYS find a means of obtaining guns if they want them. End of discussion. If you knew anything you'd know that you simply cannot rely on the police, let alone UHPD to be on the scene of the crime in time to stop such incidents on this campus if they aren't near the scene of the crime. It's common sense that concealed handguns will improve safety. If a student is unaware that theres a criminal with a gun with intentions to harm them or mug them then at least the criminal is at the same disadvantage since they would not be able to know if someone who is at the scene of the crime happens to have a gun as well. Whereas if you take away the element of concealed handguns then the criminal has nothing to worry about since they can commit the crime and get away before officers equipped for the situation can intervene if they're not around (as its been proven and shown time and time again on this very campus you twit.) You're simply enabling criminals more by actively voting down such legislation in this environment, your "logic" only keeps the guns in the hands of criminals and does nothing to improve the chances of safety for their victims.
Agreed. Nothing bad about the UHPD, just that they are not near when the crime occurs. How many times do you actually see UHPD around campus? We see parking enforcement more often than an actual police officer as they check parking permits.
And Joshuaism, if these crazy people or criminals want to carry a gun on campus, they are going to…they are not going to stop just because it's prohibited.
CHL holders not only do not commit crimes because in order to qualify for the actual license you must have a clear criminal background. And while the testing for the actual license is simple only requiring 50 rounds, on an average, these holders are in the gun range weekly or several times a month. They are always practing and keeping their skills up. These CHL holders are usually experienced, either former military, hunters, former police officers, etc. Now granted, not every CHL holder will be experienced as them, but they have some gun proficiency.
People have said that they want the government to protect them, yet when crime happens on campus, UHPD is usually not near nor do they capture the suspect as reported in our emails we receive. Yes, we have these call boxes and cameras, but do you think that would help when you are being robbed at either gunpoint/knife point? Be realistic, those are for after the crime has been committed.
Just my opinion, not that it is worth anything.