The decision by President Barack Obama to end the manned space flight program at NASA has produced some rather odd critics. Conservatives that are typically up in arms over government spending are suddenly shocked and offended by spending cuts. Instantly, government programs became a job creating force, one that, when taken away, will leave a black hole in the economy.
In a press release on his website, Gov. Rick Perry criticized Obama for leaving our astronauts stranded, having to “hitchhike” into space. Local KTRH radio talk show host Michael Berry, who normally advocates smaller government and regularly attacks tax-and-spend liberals, spent a full hour of his show chatting with callers about what a detriment to the economy this program cut would be. Callers from private aerospace and defense companies such as Lockheed Martin called to illustrate the disastrous aftermath that will ensue when they are no longer awarded government contracts, and how badly the economy of areas such as Clear Lake would suffer.
But these people are all falling into a logical fallacy that they usually are apt to avoid. In their contempt for a president that they do not like ending a romanticized government program that they do like, some conservatives have begun engaging in Orwellian doublethink, reviving the left’s debunked arguments and using them as their own.
Following the logic of these new-found government spending proponents, one could devise an excellent solution to their criticisms. NASA could start paying astronauts to orbit the earth 24 hours a day, seven days a week for the next 100 years. Considering how great the shuttle program has been economically thus far, let’s up it to ten shuttles — that will really get the government contracts flowing. Think about all the astronauts that will be hired to man the shuttles, the petroleum employees needed to produce the rocket fuel, the steelworkers needed to weld the frames and fuselages; for a second, one would almost think it’s an economic gold mine.
What is not seen, and therefore never discussed, is what these resources would have been used for had they not been first taken through taxation and then funneled into NASA’s bloated annual budget in order to be burned up in outer space. The money the government spends does not magically appear in the coffers of federal bureaus such as NASA. In order for it to get there, it must first be taken from John Doe’s paycheck every month.
So here’s my question: What proof does Perry have that NASA knows how to spend John’s money better than he does? To what evidence does Michael Berry refer to in order to claim that the nation would be wealthier and more prosperous if the federal government continued to spend billions of dollars every year in order to fly men and women into space? The simple answer is that there is no evidence. NASA is a government bureau like any other created by Congress. It does not produce wealth, it merely consumes it.
In “Essays on Political Economy,” economist Frederic Bastiat wrote, “I am, I confess, one of those who think that choice and impulse ought to come from below and not from above, from the citizen and not from the legislator.”
Some true conservatives are smiling and holding out hope for the day when choice indeed comes from below and private industry sends man into space. Cutting the government’s hegemony over spaceflight may just be the next giant leap for mankind.
Steven Christopher is an economics alumnus and graduate finance student in the C.T. Bauer College of Business and may be reached at [email protected].
All your quotes about how bad this will hurt the economy are local. It is true that ending the space program will hurt Clear Lake badly, Houston a lot, and Texas a little. How could these people not be better off when the Federal govt. is giving them Californian's and Alaskan's money?
When it comes to Peter and Paul,
It is always good to be Paul
"What is not seen, and therefore never discussed, is what these resources would have been used for had they not been first taken through taxation and then funneled into NASA’s bloated annual budget in order to be burned up in outer space."
To quote Aaron Sorkin: "There are a lot of hungry people in the world, and none of them are hungry because we went to the moon. None of them are colder and certainly none of them are dumber because we went to the moon."
>"To what evidence does Michael Berry refer to in order to claim that the nation would be wealthier and more prosperous if the federal government continued to spend billions of dollars every year in order to fly men and women into space?"
The history of the US Space Program, which has generated hundreds of billions in direct non-federal consumer spending and technological advances that then permeated to the wider market. That piece of crap Mac you wrote this article on? Was developed because NASA needed a computer light enough to be launched into space.
>" The simple answer is that there is no evidence."
You are completely wrong about this, and I'm amazed your editor let you print it. Strike that, this is the Cougar.
You can start here: http://www.nasa.gov/50th/50th_magazine/benefits.h…
And here is a blogger much like yourself, who also tried to bite off more than he could chew (note the fact that the author started with your thesis and then *publicly retracted his comments* in the face of overwhelming evidence provided in the comments): http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/economicsu…
>NASA is a government bureau like any other created by Congress. It does not produce wealth, it merely consumes it.
NASA is not like any other government agency; it exists to accelerate our path off the planet. No rational person denies that humanity will ultimately be a spacefaring species. What is in doubt is whether we will get to that point before (or after) we have destroyed the Earth and potentially ourselves. There is not a single environmental, social or economic problem we face today that would not be dramatically impacted were we a spacefaring race.
There are dozens that have consistently *not* been impacting by more and more spending on welfare programs.
>"The decision by President Barack Obama to end the manned space flight program at NASA has produced some rather odd critics. Conservatives that are typically up in arms over government spending are suddenly shocked and offended by spending cuts. Instantly, government programs became a job creating force, one that, when taken away, will leave a black hole in the economy."
And progressives who talk about how "education, science and technology can save every human being" laid down in front of their masters, labor unions and special interest, and slipped the knife into the back of America's future. There's plenty of hypocrisy to go around – what you're missing is a complex analysis and a plan for resolution. Given the level of thought present (or not) in this article, I should not be surprised.
"To quote Aaron Sorkin: "There are a lot of hungry people in the world, and none of them are hungry because we went to the moon. None of them are colder and certainly none of them are dumber because we went to the moon." "
That is just stupid on it's face. We used resources to go to the moon that could have otherwise been spent on food, energy research, or education.
"And here is a blogger much like yourself, who also tried to bite off more than he could chew (note the fact that the author started with your thesis and then *publicly retracted his comments*"
You completely overstate your case. The blogger did retract his statement "The U.S. space program turned out to be one of the great economic and innovative failures of our time" and basically replaced it with "The U.S. space program seems to have been a bad investment".
See: "But as an economist, I have to wonder whether the same R&D money, spent in other ways, could have had a bigger impact. That’s a hypothetical question that we’ll never know the answer to."
It is also a question that you could find plenty of economist who say "no".
">" The simple answer is that there is no evidence."
You are completely wrong about this, and I'm amazed your editor let you print it.""
Please look up "Bestiat seen unseen"
"And progressives who talk about how "education, science and technology can save every human being" laid down in front of their masters, labor unions and special interest, and slipped the knife into the back of America's future. "
Just because Progressives are unprincipled idiots doesn't make it okay for Republicans to be unprincipled idiots.
"That is just stupid on it's face. We used resources to go to the moon that could have otherwise been spent on food, energy research, or education. "
Let us see but if I am not mistaken because of the requirements to get to the moon and to launch such things as the space station required many things. Resources to develop food storage, future production in extremely harsh conditions. Resources spent on energy research to power our space vehicles, better power storing methods in extreme conditions. Finally all the resources spent to reserach things that can only be done in space that then educate the idjits like your self on methods of solving problems caused by gravity.
Let us be honest this is just a way for P Bo pookie to punish a state he despiese and is a thorn in his side.
"educate the idjits like your self on methods of solving problems caused by gravity. "
Well funny you mention that, but I was a civil engineer. Nothing we learned in my statics, structures, steel, or concrete classes (those where we learn how to make buildings withstand the forces of gravity) were developed by the space program.
"Let us be honest this is just a way for P Bo pookie to punish a state he despiese and is a thorn in his side."
Actually, Bush cancelled the shuttle program.
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/rocketscience-05o….
Yep the retirement of an old system and then implement a new, even safer option was the purposal of bush. The delay should have been maybe 5 years or so of not flying. With good ole Obama the earliest we can even think of not having to hitch a ride is 2020 to 2025 at best. Because he cancelled and stalled and delayed and did everything in his power by putting a bunch of fools in to drag the agency to the ground. That is why we are mad, not only are we cancelling the only method we have here in this country but we killed the next program that should have taken over in a shorter time frame. That is his way of sticking to a state he does not like and avoides like the plague. There are other instances but I'll stick with space for now.
Yep deal with your type all the time, sometimes I wonder what you did learn. But thinking about I bet you don't know jack about anything dealing with the space program or how it has effected the types of industry that civil engineers participate in. Many products that are used in the building and construction, safety as well as products used have NASA attachment. You just are not looking. When you get to the real world (which it sounds like you are just now entering) There are many products and items that do have a tie in that came as a a result of a requirement to meet a NASA spec.
That is now used in the field of civil engineering. Building materials for starters, that you would need to understand how they affect the structure and the cost benefit analysis of using the materials compared to the traditional.
Oh and it made me break it up into three posts.
"When you get to the real world (which it sounds like you are just now entering)"
Well funny that you mention that, but I was a civil engineer, and thus have been in the "real world", and we had to justify expenses not just based on outcomes, but also on inputs. It doesn't just matter that NASA may have developed something(as you keep claiming), but whether it was/is worth the resources put into it, or whether there was/is a way to do it cheaper.
Bush cancelled the Shuttle because Constellation was on deck.. Obama cancelled Constellation. When even Neil Armstrong (a very unpolitical guy if there was one) calls out Obama, then we ought to listen.
"That is just stupid on it's face. We used resources to go to the moon that could have otherwise been spent on food, energy research, or education. "
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."
"That is just stupid on it's face. We used resources to go to the moon that could have otherwise been spent on food, energy research, or education."
This is a logical non sequitur. Repeating it doesn't make it not a non sequitur. Calling me or it stupid doesn't either.
"You completely overstate your case. The blogger did retract his statement "The U.S. space program turned out to be one of the great economic and innovative failures of our time" and basically replaced it with "The U.S. space program seems to have been a bad investment". "
I overstate nothing. He stated outright it was a failed effort and was proven wrong. He had to move to a subjective measure, which is the same as saying he couldn't find evidence for what he was saying. No evidence = no case.
"Just because Progressives are unprincipled idiots doesn't make it okay for Republicans to be unprincipled idiots."
I don't understand what your point is here. Are you a Republican?
Like the was part. Ok let us consider this then. The entire NASA budget to date and for the last few years has been roughly 18 billion, this is not just manned space flight but everything NASA does (which shockingly is not only manned space flight). Compared that input to much of the governments budget and I think we get one heck of bang for a our buck. You're right my claim that NASA developed them is slightly off. These technologies were developed based upon NASA requirements of contractors who then took the development and said hey we can use this in the real world.
How about this article that has a use in the civil engineering world http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/Spinoff2004/p_4.html
SO I think you should try using this amazing thing called google and bing sometime.
*sigh*
it was good that you criticized something that most people around here like, and that you gave obama praise when you don't like him.
the rest of it was a bit crap though.
if you wanna focus on govt waste you should look at education. how much money do we spend on that, and how much smarter are we for it? just look at UH and all the money it spends. i bet if you polled students a month after they finished classes (required classes at least) most of them wouldn't be able to tell you anything substantial that they learned. it's all about memorization and getting a degree for most students in most classes.
critical thinking is shunned. you don't want students thinking independently because then they might realize what a joke much of what the school is doing truly is and may even try to do something about it.